L4-L5 herniated disc - Back Pain Update #7
L4 L5 herniated disc update, bulging bulging, buldging disc.
Well it’s been about a month since my last post on my back.
I’ve had some significant improvement… from its worst I’d rate my improvement somewhere around a 70% improvement, and I’m now almost off all drugs. The only drug I’m taking is an anti-inflammatory (Mobic 15mg, only one that doesn’t upset my stomach).
Some interesting things I’ve found out along the way:
1. Valium should only be taken at night, and you want to get off it asap. If you take it during the day and try to move/walk you’re doing yourself more damage. The Valium is a muscle relaxant, so walking around with relaxed muscles sounds good, but the the spine needs the muscular support to stop more damage being done to the disc. The muscles are required to keep everything in place and keep as much pressure off of the disc as possible when sitting, standing, walking etc. So if you have to take the Valium only at night, and when you take it make sure you’re settled in bed for the night.
2. No one person holds all the answers. If you have a herniated disc you’ll be told so many things to do, and what worked for others….. listen to your body, and if something hurts don’t do it. Normally you’d expect that the saying no pain no gain applies, but it doesn’t. Pain means you’re inflaming your nerve, which takes days to settle down. I’ve seen more than 5 GP’s and each one had a different thought on what I should do, ranging from bed rest for weeks on end, to exercising and walking as much as possible, in my case I ultimately sat in the middle. Much of it was bed rest, but exercises that didn’t cause pain were also worth it.
3. Most physio’s have got the wrong end of the stick, they get you to do exercises that put more pressure on the nerve, not less. For instance in my most acute phase I had a physio show me an exercise that created significant pain, but I was told it was the standard exercise for ruptured/herniated discs. The exercise was on your knees and hands, and arch your back up, and then push down (so arching your stomach up, and then pushing it to the floor). It looks like you’re doing a cat stretch, arching your back right up, and then right down.
I found the going up part (arching up) felt good, but going down extremely painful, and my research so far is that going up distracts the vertebrae (ie doesn’t pinch the disc), arching down pinches the disc and puts more pressure on the nerve. As I said anything that hurts the nerve more is bad, it takes days for the inflammation from a bad exercise to go down.
4. Ultimately if you can make it through the pain using meds, I think a large portion of people will get better of their own accord.
5. See a chiropractor who works with disc patients all the time. I wouldn’t let any chiropractor crack me and if they said the word adjustment I’d leave. The 1 thing that gave me the biggest single improvement was having my pelvis (for lack of a better word) adjusted…. the adjustment did not require being cracked etc, the chiro simply places small blocks under your hips/pelvis/legs and leaves you to breath and relax, and your own weight over the top of the blocks puts your pelvis back in… I’m not saying people with a disc problem have an out of alignment pelvis, but it’s worth seeing a chiropractor to see if your back is out, because in my case my pelvis was out and was putting even more pressure on the disc. My main comment here is if you feel comfortable with the chiropractor, and they take it slowly then it’s at least worth the visit to rule that out as a possible contributor to your pain. I also found the chiropractor forced me to take x-rays, which I hadn’t had, I’d only had a CAT scan and an MRI, but the basic x-ray showed I also had an antalgic lean, a few basic exercises for the antalgic lean also gave me a huge improvement.
6. I saw a neurosurgeon and an orthopedic surgeon, both very competent. Make sure your orthopedic surgeon only specialises in lower back pain. If he does other things he not a specialist. Both of these professionals were good at explaining what was wrong, but also advised me of not using alternate therapies because it would do more damage. I initially took that advice, but after a while decided to give alternate therapies a go… I figured if I felt I was being pushed or I wasn’t comfortable with what they were doing I’d say so, and walk out. One big thing I think anyone suffering from disc bulging/herniation/rupture should try is flexion distraction (or the cox technique). I was very sceptical, and I made sure they took things very slowly. For certified practitioners check here http://www.coxtechnic.com/. It’s worth a shot, and It’s done wonders for me.
7. Get a lumbar belt/support and don’t take it off except for showering. Sleep in it. I was soooo surprised when I got one and spent the first day in it.
8. Get a massage every day if you can. I had severe muscle pain in my left leg. Thigh, left buttock, and lower back. I saw a physio who did massage, and it seriously is what has got me through each day. My bank account doesn’t love me, but seriously I was surprised at the effects. Maybe it doesn’t have to be daily, but maybe every 2 or 3 days, and get your partner/family member to come a long and watch, the massage technique should be simple and not too hard. Having a family member watch and do it to you at home morning and night was an absolute life saver for me.
9. Returning to work is high on my list of priorities….. 2 months of lying around in bed does your mind in, so getting back to work is a mind saver. I attempted to go to work too early and lasted about 4 hours, and the last 2 hours was nasty pain. That premature start set me back at least a week. I now have a structured plan for returning to work which I trialled at home first. I started on Monday with 2 hours of sitting (not continual but get up every 20 minutes for a small walk), the same on Wed and the same on Friday. I did that at home and could see I was recovering fast enough. I spoke to work and got them on board with my plan, expectations were set and everything so far is going smoothly.
I hope I can get my hours up every day I go back (maybe just 15 every time I go). I judge how I’m going by the recovery time. If the next day I’m so sore I can’t move properly then it means you’ve done too much, back it off immediately. The reason I stress the structured return is because people who haven’ had a disc problem just assume you’ll be better when you come back, and you’ll sit down and do a full days work, this is not the case, it will take time to rehabilitate and get your body back to where you were. Remember I had 2 months of almost solid bed rest, so I had lost a lot of core muscle (ie back muscle, leg, basically everything).
10. Don’t wear slip on shoes…. I did because I couldn’t do my shoe laces up, but when I got laced shoes on my feet I walked a lot better. This is because with a slip on shoe you’re constantly walking differently with your toes trying to keep the shoe on. It’s not good. When I changed I got an immediate improvement in my walking ability.
11. This should be number one, but I forgot it. Always use ice and not heat when you’re really bad. Heat just inflames the area more. Never have a cold pack on your back for more than 10 minutes. After every icing make sure you stretch out your back muscles, otherwise you’ll feel like a cripple who’s muscles are so contracted you can’t move. The best exercise to stretch everything out for me was lying on my back, knees bent, and pulling my knees to my chest both at the same time.. honestly that was the best stretch for my back, and I think that exercise is reasonably universal… the reason being is that it distracts (takes pressure) off of your disc.
12. If you go out anywhere always make sure you have house keys, if you get massive pain you can always jump in a taxi on your own and go home. I’ve been caught out without keys and my partner, it’s not good with major pain and waiting on someone.
That’s pretty much it. I’ll add to it if I can think of anything else that’s helped me.
Feel free to leave comments, and I’ll reply if I can help.
Lastly don’t give up, I think the biggest positive about this condition is that over time it will heal itself, it’s just a question of how long, some people it’s weeks, other’s i can be 6 or 12 months…. I know it sounds a bit like how long is a piece of string, but honestly I think most people will just heal themselves, without drugs or any other medical intervention. The drugs just make it more comfortable.
Cheers
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August 9th, 2006 at 12:26 am
Thanks for the invaluable insight - sounds like your progress and observations concerning the specialists (particularly the physios) mirrors mine. I used the McKenzie book for a while and it helped, but then it was straining my back too much, and I pulled back and opted for a lot of rest, with occasional experiments in sitting up and taking short walks when I thought I could manage it. I’ve been away from work for about two months too, and it ain’t easy when you’re a writer because you don’t tend to make much money in this business. Still, needs must, and it’s nice to know my experience is shared.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Hi Gary,
It’s good to finally hear from someone with similar problems. I thought I was writing to nobody, but I continued as I thought when I’m better it will be good to reflect on, and if it ever gets bad again I can re-read and pick up my own advice
Yes, off work for 2 months, and I’m in IT, so sitting is a major problem, and the money going out is more than the money coming in.
Initially I was surprised not more people suffered with the same condition, I mean we’re talking about a very small space in the spine, and most people have some form of disc bulging… but I’ve found out that being vocal about the problem has all of a sudden made a lot of people either say they had a similar problem years ago, or they know someone going through it right now. So there are a fair few people out there suffering, but because they don’t have a cast like someone with a broken leg etc it tends not to be spoken about… weird, I think there is some funky stigma about people with back problems, and being whingers.
Thanks again for the comments and I hope you improve fast (as you’ve read, I know how shit it is)
Regards,
Matt
September 19th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
I’m so glad I found this blog.
I’ve been off work three weeks and the MRI just revealed it is because the L5 disk herniated.
I go back and forth that I can go back to work (because I really need to for money’s sake) but I’ve noticed that I can’t really do anything for more than a few hours, and that will have me off my feet the entire next day.
This has never happened to me before and I just don’t know what to do. My chiro has me doing electrode therapy for now, but did tell me today that injections may be possible if that doesn’t work. He also said that surgery is an option, but something that is way at the bottom of the list.
So it’s been scary and I haven’t been able to find “real life” experiences to help me.
This blog was it. Thank you SO much.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Hi,
My experience with sciatica has been really similar to yours. L4/L5 herniated disc, severe pain and couldn’t walk, stand or sit for two months. I also have weakness in my big toe. The neurosurgeon advised me to get surgery because of the weakness in my toe, but I want to avoid that. Did the strength return to your foot without surgery?
Thanks for writing about your experience. It’s helpful to be able to compare notes.
Sounds like you’re feeling better by now - congratulations on your recovery!
August 5th, 2007 at 8:29 am
Good website. I am new to back injuries. I believe I herniated my disc during a lacrosse game, go hit in the back, felt something sting down my leg. I played in pain for two more games and then called it quits. I was debilitated but five days later leaning over the pain shot down my leg and I was unable to move without intense pain. I went to the doc they gave me anit-inflammatory steroids and percocet. Four days later I went for an MRI and found a herniated L5-S1 disc. I went to a neurosurgeon and they said to try to recover on your own but could have a steriod injection or surgery. None of these sounded good.
I did some internet research and it was amazing how little information was available for alternative eastern medicine. Most of the comments from the websites said bedrest, light excersise, chiro or PT, anti inflammatory’s. I was very dispointed in the research. The theory I developed after talking to many people and reading was the body wants to heal itself. If you can allow the body to free itself from some of the pain, the muscles will loosen up, blood and O2 can get to the disc to bring nutrients and hopefully breakdown the disc material on the nerve. So the question was how can you get the body to relax to allow this.
I have been going to a Rolfer(structural integration) for the past 5 years. She is able to understand where my pain is(it was moving around for me - foot, calf, hamstring, butt cheeks, side of thigh) and find out what muscles or discs are locked up causing this pain. She then would “release” them to again allow my body to recover naturally versus fighting the mechanisms it puts in place to protect damaged discs(tight muscles, locking discs so they stop moving et).
I have also tried acupuncture therapy, I have gone once and felt pretty good pain relief. They also send electrical impulses into the back needles to helps shrink the herniated disc. He said if I do not feel noticiable results in three sessions then to stop. So far I am encouraged.
I have also been using infra red laser therapy from my rolfer - it is new technology that helps shrink swelling and brings blood and 02 to the area you put the laser on.
I am going on my 5th week, I had a slow and steady recovery for the first 3 weeks, from not being able to sit to sitting for 30-60 minutes. The pain in the leg also had improved. Over the past 10 days I have had two set back. Like mentioned before I think I inflamed the nerve by reaching and sitting poorly, it has taken 3-4 days to recover from this. I do take a perc and muscle relaxant in the evening after work-i too want to end these soon. I work about 6-7 hours a day - I am looking to getting the kneeling chair. Any experience with this chair and it success for herniated disc pain?
I remain hopeful this strategy will work - Rolfing, Infra red, Acupuncture, stretching, walking, and rest. I tried an inversion table but stopped for a while, was not sure if that infamed the nerve or not.
I am curious about other treatment success, have you experienced a roll coaster recovery of good and bad days, and just optimism about healing without surgery.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
It is wonderful to find this blog…
It’s been about 7 weeks and I finally understand what it means when they asked me about the pains coming down the limbs etc.
I am also starting to have the feeling that some people just think that I am imagining up the pains and possibly figuring that I am too lazy to get back to work.
Nice to find a place where I could find people who knows what it means when we use phrases such as in bad pains and having difficulties walking.
Again, thank you all!
http://ratology.blogspot.com/
September 27th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
I have a herniated disc at L4/L5. I have wild pain in the butt and the legs. I didn’t know it was herniated until a month ago, but before that I worked with minimal back and leg pain for 4-5 years just figuring it was a “laborers back” and part of work. I have seen two doctors and both recommended surgery the first visit AFTER viewing a MRI. I have been out of work for the last month or so giving it time to heal, trying to follow advice from my doc and websites. I went back to work 2 days ago (I work for a soda pop company and do a LOT of lifting and moving) and called in today. So, in just two days it hurts as bad as it did before after taking a month off. I am just 24 and are hesitant to have back surgery so young. I feel like a dog turd. The people around me are worried but also seem skeptical of the pain it causes I think because of my age. I guess I am just crying about it but I am really confused about the whole deal…
November 8th, 2007 at 12:25 am
sir
my problem is that i got an injury in back bone due to weight lifting 3 months ago. I had pain in my lumber portion. From the last two months pain has increased and the numbness in my left leg and feet has started.I got MRI and Electromygraphy. The Electromygraphy results are “The nerve condition study showed that tibial and peroneal nerves have normal distal latency,amplitude and nerve condition velocity.Flatencies are also normal.on EMG spontaneous activity is not seen. Recruitment and interference is low in left Tibialis and gastrocnemius. L4 -5 Radiculopathy.
The MRI results are” A transitional vertebra is noted.This is marked at L5. Plain film correlation is advised. Mild disc bulge is seen at the level of L4/L5 and L5S1.
sir now i have a little pain in lumbar portion of spine but the numbness in left leg and specially in left feet is their all the times.please advise me in my case, can i be recovered trought non surgical treatment. if so then advise me in detail all the exercises and things i need to do to get back to normal activites.
ur sincerely
umer asgher
November 12th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
hi all , i made operation (slip back dick remove l5-)from one year ago and now i am trying to do some exercise can any one advice me what can i do without effecting on my back ?
December 27th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Hi, I am only 36, and I have a herniated L4-L5. I had a cortisone shot in my back in June of 06 which saved me because I was in so much pain that I would, at times, just lie on the floor paralyzed with pain. I was in so much pain before the shot that I lost about 10 pounds and I was actually losing my hair! I couldn’t find anyone on the Internet at the time, so it’s nice to finally read some comments from people who know what it’s like. I did intense physical therapy for 3 months after the shot which really helped because I built up the muscles around my core. This is really important. You have to do the exercises even at home. Unfortunately, I got busy at work this year and have really slacked off, and now I am paying for it. I wake up every morning in pain. I can’t “sleep in” anymore because I have to get out of the bed. The pain goes away once I move around a bit. So my advice is to keep up the exercises and not be like me. You should not bend, lift, or twist basically. You should only arch your back by sticking your butt out. Do backbends, but do not flex your back in the opposite way (as in the cat pose that one person described). If you haven’t gotten a cortisone shot, I highly encourage you to think about it. It made it possible for me to stand up straight and walk!
January 1st, 2008 at 2:25 pm
HI, I WAS GLAD TO HEAR THAT THERE IS HOPE FOR HERNIATED DISCS. MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN IN PAIN FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS. HE WENT TO SEE HIS DOCTOR AND WAS RECOMENDED TO GO THROUGH THERAPY FIRST. HIS SECOND OPTION IS TO TAKE AN EPIDUROL SHOT, AND THIRD OPTION THE SURGERY. SO FAR HE IS GOING THROUGH THERAPY ONLY. YET, HE IS NOT GETTING BETTER. HE FEELS A LOT OF PAIN ON HIS LEFT LEG. HIS MRI SHOWS THAT HE HAS A HERNIATED DISC IN HIS L4-L5. HE IS THINKING ABOUT GETTING THE SHOT, HIS SECOND OPTION. WE ARE NOT SURE IF IS THE RIGHT CHOICE. IF ANY ONE CAN GIVE US AN ADVISE ABOUT OUR OPTIONS, PEASE LET US KNOW.
January 1st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
HI, I WAS GLAD TO HEAR THAT THERE IS HOPE FOR HERNIATED DISCS. MY HUSBAND HAS BEEN IN PAIN FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS. HE WENT TO SEE HIS DOCTOR AND WAS RECOMENDED TO GO THROUGH THERAPY FIRST. HIS SECOND OPTION IS TO TAKE AN EPIDUROL SHOT, AND THIRD OPTION THE SURGERY. SO FAR HE IS GOING THROUGH THERAPY ONLY. YET, HE IS NOT GETTING BETTER. HE FEELS A LOT OF PAIN ON HIS LEFT LEG. HIS MRI SHOWS THAT HE HAS A HERNIATED DISC IN HIS L4-L5. HE IS THINKING ABOUT GETTING THE SHOT, HIS SECOND OPTION. WE ARE NOT SURE IF IS THE RIGHT CHOICE. IF ANY ONE CAN GIVE US AN ADVISE ABOUT OUR OPTIONS, PLEASE LET US KNOW.
January 21st, 2008 at 11:06 pm
I was glad to find your website. I have had back problems on and off for over 15 years. I am 37, so that will tell you how long. Finally, by xray and MRI, I was diagnosed just two years ago. I have a bulging disc between L5/S1, facet joint arthritis on L3/4/5 and S1, degenerative disc disease in the thoracic spine, anterior wedging of the T7/8/9 and spondolylisis. Right now I am trying to get it service connected and 100 percent disability. It has taken seven months and still no word. I am already 60% disabled. I have not been able to work for seven months. I am on three medications, percocet, naprosyn and flexeril. Two of these I rarely take. I want to get off all the medication but my only refuge for this is to have major back surgery. The wedging in my spine is so bad, that if I lay on the floor I cant breath and it is now starting to radiate into my ribs. The problem is that I also have thoracic outlet sydrome, bilateraly and vascular (the rarer form), carpal tunnel syndrome in both hands and severe temporal madibular joint dysfuction on both sides. Not to mention arthritis in my hands, feet and hips. Yes, I am only 37. The military tore me up. So, because of all this they have diagnosed my with fibromyalgia. Any helpful hints on what to do with my back???
February 6th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Hello Wolff, just curious if you have an update on your condition?
My herniated disc has so far ruined my life/lifestyle. I am a very active 36 year old male, I (used to) ride dirtbike on weekends and love playing with my 3 year old. I haven’t picked up my son in almost a month now, everyday he asks me if my back is better, then gets bummed out when I tell him no.
I can’t sit for more than 30 seconds straight. So I sit on the floor on my knees for dinner. I can’t drive more than a kilometer. The only thing I can do that actually feels relatively comfortable, is pace around the house for 18 hours a day. I sleep for 1 or 2 hours, then wake up because I rolled onto my side (I have to sleep on my stomach, otherwise the pain is excruciating) or something. Once awake, the pain kicks in and I am awake for at least an hour. My doctor prescribed Gabapentin and Tylenol3 for the pain, which did help with the nagging afternoon pain I felt, but nothing he prescribed works on the pain I experience when I wake up. After my 2 hours sleep, I wake up to the feeling that someone is tearing the muscle out of the back of my right leg, I have this pain for about the first hour after I wake up. Lucky for me, I was experienced in smoking marijuana before my injury, THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT RELIEVES MY MORNING PAIN. Why it’s not more widely used for this purpose is totally beyond me, I’m not saying people with pain should start, I’m just relaying what worked for my pain. My Doctor has yet to prescribe any treatments for my problem, he feels it’s better to wait for WCB, this is why I am going to get a new doctor this week. And WCB is taking their sweet time coming to a conclusion about my claim. I can re-roof a house in 2 days by myself, yet it takes them 3 weeks to look at a CT scan.
February 8th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Great idea putting this site up to share your experience with others. I injured my back 7yrs ago deadlifting alot of weight…MRI confirmed l4/l5 herniation but I was able to recover doing core exercises 3-4 times a week. Unfortunately I lost my mind one day and tried to lift/push my van out of a snowbank and really damaged myself. That was several years ago and I just haven’t been able to recover. Pain is always there and sitting is the worst. Tried every therapy there is…too many to name. Starting prolotherapy with a very good doctor. We’ll see if it works. My advice; stay active, adjust your lifestyle, don’t give up searching for a solution/practioner that will help, read sarno’s book, find a good trigger point masseuse, try an ART (active release therapy) chiropractor.
February 9th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I have a bulged L4-L5 disc space which I have tried chiro,phys therapy,epidural injections,trigger injections,facet injections,Vax -D, and surgery(which was a failure and made matters worse). The only thing I ever tried that relieved my pain was Vax-D. Unfortunately I was one of the few that didnt recieve perm relief but many others did. Vax-D is a traction device that stretches your vertabrae apart which relieves pressure on your disc and the negative pressure actually pulls the disc back into its normal position relieving pain. If you dont know what else to try and would like to avoid surgery this may be your answer. It works for alot of people and it actually relieved much of my pain but unfortunately it didnt last for me and my pain cam back in a month-but it does last for many-maybe you will be one of them. Best wishes.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Thank God I found this blog! I can’t tell you how much of a relief it is to read about your experience. I thought I was just going crazy and it was all in my head. I’m out of surgery going on 6 weeks now and I still feel the same pain in my back as the day I went in pre-op. I originally herniated L5 and S1. I did physical therapy for three months, then low and behold, the other side of my body was hurting. My second MRI showed that due to me herniating the lowest discs, they couldn’t support L3 and L4, so those collapsed too! My recovery has been very long and painful. One week after surgery I checked myself into the ER of my local hospital because the pain was so great and I hadn’t slept for three days. I was and still am on a lot of muscle relaxers, lidocaine patches, vicodin, dilodid, lyrica, diclofenac etc. I ordinarily take quite a few meds anyway, so adding about five more scares me. I’m going in for a spinal injection tomorrow because after my post-op appointment with my surgeon he felt my pain was still just too great and I was crying begging for some kind of relief. Talk about this injury messing with your mind. All we have is time on our hands to think. I’m a single woman, never married and all I can think about is if I’ll ever be able to carry a child to term without being on bed rest for nine months! I have a woker’s comp claim in place, so I’m getting paid, but it still doesn’t seem to justify or compensate for all the pain and suffering I’ve endured. All I want, and I think we all want, is some relief from pain. It’s been seven months since my injury, I’m anxiously awaiting!
Your blog entry and all the others really have helped. I’ll be trying cold packs versus the heat that I’m constantly sitting on. I’m not sure why I didn’t know that ice was better than heat? I’ve also been on limited activity, but I’ve been taking small walks lately and if anything, it’s getting the endorphones going. I’ll also be trying those stretches! I feel a lot more normal than before I logged on. Thanks so much!
March 6th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Great blog! I herniated L4/L5 some 5 weeks ago deadlifting, however this is not the first time, it took almost 2years for me to get over the first time..(which was as a result of deadlifting a lot of weight) I am quite an active person but for the first time in 5 years I had to call into the office sick today, I am still trying to train through the pain which I have found in the past to be the best solution for me, but reconsidering as I think I inflammed the nerves last night following a leg training session, I feel excruciating pain in my butt and this pain travels down my hamstrings ending up in a painful knot in my left calf, I am getting these massaged and doing the core muscle building excercises and these have worked for me in the past, never ever round your back! the cat stretch is bad with this type of pain, I find that the best stretch is pulling your knees to your chest and holding it for 20secs at a time. I am happy I found this site and it’s definitely helped me with dealing with the pain.
April 1st, 2008 at 6:14 am
I have just been diagnosed with a herniated disc L5/S1, I have had this pain since November that has taken over my life. The pain is almost at times unbearable, it is a relief to hear that I’m not the only one in this world with this problem. I am at the point that I can’t drive any more because the pain from sitting now drives me to tears, I have never had a pain like this before. I have just seen my surgeon today, and have been booked for surgery, I’m hoping someone can leave me a blog on the surgery and recovery time, which my Doctor tells me is 12 weeks and 3 weeks of complete bed rest? I want my life back @ the age of 38 and hoping very much that this works. All I do now is take medication and try to sleep. Any info would be helpfull…Thanks
May 15th, 2008 at 10:50 am
I shattered a C-5 in my neck in ‘92, so I really feel for you.
Glad you seem to be doing well with it.